Join John Malanca as he discusses both the impact of cannabis on sexuality and the use of cannabis for sexual enhancement. His guest, Chelsea Cebara, is a professional sex educator who has been helping people combine cannabis and sex since 2010. As a Medically Certified Cannabis Consultant she untangles the complex issues surrounding both of these “taboo and stigmatized” topics.
Sex is a taboo subject for most adults. Sadly, we rarely speak about sex or our sex life even with our partners. Cannabis, by its effect on a variety of receptors, has the ability to increase intimacy, decrease inhibitions, allow for expression of deeply held feelings and enhance the physical experience of sex.
John and Chelsea acknowledge and discuss the importance of simple intimacy in this COVID world where anxiety is creating distance between us. This can be both physical and geographic with travel restrictions, masks and 6 feet between us; as well as a fear of touching, hugging and kissing those we live with. Sadly, we are seemingly more emotionally distant than ever as we digest and adjust to revolving openings and shutdowns.
In a 2020 world where consent is no longer implied, Chelsea and John discuss preparations for adding cannabis to your bedroom. Chelsea explains that the use of cannabis begins with a discussion which Chelsea states is often “the most difficult part” of adding the super herb to intimacy. She adds how important safety is, including safe words and touches to clearly indicate consent when using any intoxicant.
As you watch the discussion of these issues and more, ask yourself if the cannabis you are using to enhance your life and quell difficult symptoms could also be used to deepen intimacy, leaving you happier and more satisfied.
John Malanca 0:00
Welcome back everybody this is John Malanca with United Patients Group Be Informed. Be Will. Today's topic for some reason is a taboo topic and I don't know why people always shy to talk about it. How can I improve my sex life? physically, emotionally and spiritually? And we have an expert today speaking on this exact topic. Chelsea Cebara. How are you doing Chelsea?
Chelsea Cebara 0:31
Hi, john. I'm doing absolutely great. Thank you for having me. I am a real evangelist for cannabis, his ability to enhance all of those dimensions that you mentioned. And particularly, it has a unique power I think to address that stigma and that shame that internal shame that does make it hard to talk about because its own stigmatized nature. So I'll talk about that a little bit. But But yeah, it's it's my favorite thing in the world to discuss. So very happy to be here.
John Malanca 1:05
Well, it is a first for this topic on united patient group talking in this in this in this. I get publicly we've written articles on it, but not publicly spoke about this, but it always comes in so let me read your oppressive bio First off, and we'll go from there. So Chelsea sabara. She's been helping humans effectively and mindfully combine sex and cannabis since 2010. As a professional sex educator, product developer and medically certified cannabis consultant, she is proud to have developed the first water based barrier compatible TC lubricate velvet swing, which we'll talk about that Mr. Barra has been featured in numerous publications such as Forbes cosmopolitan and dope magazine was named one of medical marijuana's ventures top 40 under 40 in 2008, and has been featured speaker at the prominent industry conference such as Women Grow, which we've spoken at. She recently founded sabar consulting, and continues to teach her high demand sex and cannabis workshops and speaks nationally on the intersection of cannabis with sex, kink, and consent culture, which is really important. So, welcome. Welcome, Chelsea. So this one comes up, you know, how can I make sex better for me, I have a lot of friends. And we were talking before we got on camera here. You know, I had an incredible relationship with my wife. And for our viewers, I think everyone has known, you know, Clint passed away from pancreatic cancer. But that was something communication. You know, we had that in all forms of our life and a friend of mine. We've been married for 2526 years, I've actually quite a few of my friends. Their relationship is just a husband, a wife, but nor so his roommates right now. And, and it's really important to have that. And I remind them all the time after especially losing my wife to remind my friends, have these conversations, you know, with with your spouse with your partner, it's so important. So you know, can you talk about forging this connection not only with eye gazing, communication, breathing, touching, holding, but why would someone use want to use cannabis to enhance sex? And what does it actually do? Because this topic comes in from the the the the, I'll say, youth, but the young adults who call us up to the 89 year olds when we speak at retirement communities, does this work for this? And so can you talk about that, please?
Chelsea Cebara 3:33
Yeah, yeah, well, both cannabis and sex tend to occupy this demographic free zone, right? It does not follow the rules. And everyone at every level of life at every intersection is interested in some capacity, right. And so this this is actually really great lead into what I like to say about the the dual stigmatization of cannabis and sexuality that unfortunately, both exists in our Western American culture right now. The way that the stigma has developed is slightly different, but the way that stigma operates psychologically is very similar. And in this case, the the thing that cannabis can do especially now when it's really coming to the forefront of the national conversation, is it can open the door to a conversation about sexuality. Because if you are going to talk to your partner about if you're going to add if you're considering adding cannabis to partnered sex, you're going to have to talk to your partner about it right partner partners. to not do that is a consent violation. And we'll go over a little bit of how to best deal with the unique consent challenges that intoxicants and cannabis in particular Cuellar may pose, however, we're going to take it as a matter of, we're going to assume that you are a good person, and that you do not intend to dose anyone, and you're going to bring this up as something that you're interested in. That takes bravery. But it also is an opportunity to be more intentional about the other elements of your sexuality. One of the things that I encourage people to do, generally just generally, but definitely if you're considering any kind of intoxicated sexual connection, or even a non intoxicating topical cannabis preparation is to sit down with your partner and do what a what is called a yes no maybe list. And this is a really fun exercise. It can be goofy you can laugh through it, it's it's just it's it's kind of tends to be more lighthearted, but it's really important to get the information. Rather, you've been sexually active with your partner for a day or for 10 years, the information is, is probably going to be new, and it's going to be interesting. So these exist online, you can go online, and you can just download a template or you can make your own and basically you're listing every possible sexual activity that you can think of from masturbation to necrophilia, like you're listing everything that you can possibly think of that people might do. And then you're going to say whether this is something you're always into a yes, something that you could be into, or you're interested in under the right circumstances, which is a maybe, and or something you're absolutely never going to do, right. And I think we can imagine what goes in that column. But the and then you can also distinguish between, you know, a fantasy of a thing, right? Or the actual doing of it. So you have a fantasy of a threesome, maybe but you don't really want to have a threesome, right, that kind of stuff. This exercise is a hoot. It gets a lot of the weird feelings out and it has the the ability of outsourcing responsibility for posing the question. So you don't have to say, Hey, I'm curious about bondage. You can just say, bondage is on the list. How do you feel about that? Somebody else put it there. You didn't put it there. So you know.
Unknown Speaker 7:21
So when in doubt, blame showdowns, right.
Unknown Speaker 7:24
This works. This is something that I use for my toddler, actually, you know, I'm not waking you up. The alarm is waking you
Unknown Speaker 7:29
up. Funny. You're right.
Unknown Speaker 7:32
Yeah. But it works in stigmatized topics of all kinds, because you're not the impetus, you don't have to take ownership over being that there. And that helps you feel more comfortable. And it might also make your partner feel more comfortable. So then you can just say how you feel about that. So this is something that's just really cool to do in general, and especially if you're going to consider intoxicated sex, or even a topical, as I said, and the other part of your question that you you asked is why? Why would somebody do that? cannabis is, and I am not, I don't feel like it's hyperbolic to say this a revolutionary sexual aid, particularly for people with favas. But however, people with penises as well also works great for them. The reason that it can be so effective at enhancing sexual response, and I do want to put a blanket disclaimer, I'm sure you have one for the show over this nothing I'm saying is medical advice. This is all personal opinion. And anecdote, I have to say, but,
John Malanca 8:38
but I do I do throw those disclaimers out there. Okay, guys, if you're not this is for educational informational purposes only. This is not replace a one on one with your with your counselor, your psychologist or your doctor. So please,
Unknown Speaker 8:56
I'll see ya there. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, the the reason that, I believe and we don't have really fully developed research on this, because of that dual stigmatization, you're you're talking about, you know, not only are you researching cannabis, but you're researching sex and cannabis, no way, you're not going to get the funding for that you're going to have a hard time getting it passed IRB. So what we know is cobbled together from other studies, and we know that cannabis is what's called a peripheral veza dilator, which just means that it enhances blood flow at the periphery, in the smallest blood vessels in your body, the capillaries at the end of your know your fingertips and things like that. reason that this is relevant sexually is because that dense vasculature that happens in the genitals and the key role the major role that blood flow plays in sexual response. So obviously, people are thinking of erectile tissue and the way that blood flow causes rigidity there, but I'm actually talking about pull, it's pulled back from that a little bit. We're not talking Viagra here. This is about sensitivity. And it mimics the body's natural arousal response in a way that doesn't feel foreign. It doesn't feel like a warming lube or something, which is always weird I like this is, you know, a strange sensation. This is a very natural sensation. And that kind of creates, although cannabis itself is not an aphrodisiac most of the time, what it kind of creates is this feedback loop. So your body begins responding, your brain gets on board that in turn,
John Malanca 10:46
well that that's a huge part that people come come to us a lot of times, you know, the power of intention to you're talking about intentions, and when I want to go back to your consent, but thank you for putting that in. And I know that's that's that is that is very important. You know, you don't want to have the date rape drugs you're hearing about and people automatically put everything in the same basket. So thank you for pointing that out. But back to the brain portion. You know, it is pretty much the biggest sex organ in our body it is and but the heart is the machine that drives it. And so we have a lot of patients actually patients people that call us and say help you know about dysfunction and to pee talk about that you I knew you're going there but you know a bringing two people together and one may have one may have dysfunction and need need an extra boost.
Unknown Speaker 11:44
Yeah, certainly, cannabis can help with sexual sexual dysfunction pretty broadly, because a lot of the things that it does happen to address causes of sexual dysfunction. And so I'm going to name some specific things that people often will use cannabis for. If you are someone with a vulva. Common common concerns is pain with penetration. Uncomfortable tension, vas vaginismus, you can have PTSD or traumatic risk response to being touched. And that sort of thing is more in the brain than in the body. But cannabis ability to decrease anxiety and relax is often helpful with that. I want to quickly note here that there's a topical application and there's the systemic inhaled or edible application. And these are going to be appropriate for different uses here. But there's also just difficulty getting things going right, you might be mentally on board, but your body is not responding. And we see this a lot in Perry or postmenopausal people or also those who have undergone chemo which may be particularly relevant. There's some sexual changes that are common during an after chemo. And the ability of cannabis to kickstart that physiological response I think is very useful. Many cannabinoids if not all cannabinoids are anti inflammatory, and therefore can decrease the kind of micro tears that can happen with you know, even gentle penetrative sex. So we have a decrease in pelvic muscular tension, pelvic floor tension that can be the result of unconscious tightening from trauma, we have a decrease in inflammation, we have increased blood flow, increased lubrication as a result of that blood flow, decrease anxiety. And if you are someone who has a penis, then you may find that it enhances your ability to become erect. Now, again, I want to really stop short of saying Viagra because there's a lot of bad marketing out there that says it's an herbal Viagra and blah, blah, blah, but it's not. I just want to put a full stop to that. That's not the degree we're talking here. But all of the structures in vaginas also, you know, what we would traditionally call female anatomy, though I try very hard not to use that term. It's all analogous. Right? So the clitoral is the glans of the penis, there's the same tissue, it just develops differently from the time that you're an embryo. So everything that works for a person with a vulva is going to also work for a person with a penis, but the application will be a little different. The dosage is a little different. And you can expect somewhat more muted results in my experience typically people with vulva is get 100% of the of the the effects a person with a penis might expect 70 to 80% of that.
John Malanca 14:56
Gotcha. Well put there. You mentioned anxiety. That we're in the world right now where I mean everybody, not just here in America, but globally, everyone's under stress, anxiety, depression, daily stress from work from from not being able to see families touch touching. I feel I will dating be the ever be the same.
Unknown Speaker 15:21
I hope not.
John Malanca 15:22
I mean, I mean, really? I mean, yeah. Okay.
Unknown Speaker 15:24
It wasn't going so great. Gotcha.
John Malanca 15:28
No, but I mean, when do you see yourself going out to anywhere nowadays? I mean, that's the thing. And so, you know, I think cannabis when it for stress, anxiety, depression, daily stress, it helps relieve that and lower it. And so a lot of couples that I that I talked to bring it into the relationship, for gentle touch, massage, the connection between the partners, because a lot of partners in the end when I was mentioning earlier about my friends, I mean, I have friends that had been married, and they haven't made love. And over six, seven months, I said, how's that possible, guys? You know, and they said, we're just busy. And I said, Make time make time. And so can you talk about sparking up relationship? But again, having these conversations that checklist was was great. And I think a lot of people don't want to talk, they just want to have normal missionary sex.
Unknown Speaker 16:20
I might challenge you on that. I don't think they want to I think they have done a cost benefit analysis and the risk is too scary, too. Okay.
John Malanca 16:30
Okay. But I think that checklist you're talking about, they have a communicate with each other brings them to a different level. They can laugh, they can say Hell no. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 16:44
And so can you talk about that? Yeah, yeah,
Unknown Speaker 16:46
absolutely. That the conversation starting, I think is what not only one of the things that cannabis is well suited for, but also the hardest part of a lot of these things. One of my colleagues read mccolo, it has this this way of like, if you are somebody who's not naturally at ease with sexuality, one of the ways that he would recommend to bring up a, maybe a scary topic is I have an idea, or I had an idea, right? But while there's all these different ways that you can, once you've decided that you want to bring something up, that you can help make it easier to do. And I promise once you get started having the conversation, it's already so much easier starting it is the hardest part. And finding the right place to start is the hardest part how even you know, if you both like to consume together having a very light amount that you share of cannabis. And then in order to be in the right headspace to have the conversation and to feel less inhibited can be an excellent choice, if that's something that is pre existing in your relationship and normal in your relationship. Probably don't start off that way. Yeah. But the question behind the question and what's going on with your friends, and even me? Well, I'm like one of the horniest people that you're going to meet, and I'm struggling with my libido in this in this context. Everybody is struggling in this really weird context where we're around each other kind of a lot. But the interest and the dynamism can feel muted, or we can feel out of touch with with that. So the first step on this is, you have to want to have that conversation. You have to want it badly enough to do it. Whatever that is, you know, whatever that line is for you where you're over the hump, pun intended, I guess, to to bring up the topic with your partner. And that is just a matter of saying to yourself, sexual fulfilment is normal is a normal thing to desire. It's a natural thing to desire. I am not weird or bad. I shouldn't feel ashamed. My fantasies aren't strange. I guarantee you guys, your your fantasies are not strange. I've seen a lot of fantasies and let me tell you, pretty much whatever you're thinking is pretty normal. Even if you think you're really weird, I promise you're not that weird. So the the getting over that, that sense of it not being important, or not important enough to bring up or not important to bring up right now, under these circumstances. I would say it's very important. And there is a whole new side of yourself a whole new world of fulfillment that exists just on the other side of that gate of shame and inhibition, where you're doing something that is completely okay to do and also profoundly satisfying. So you just have to make that call. This is important and that's okay.
John Malanca 20:07
It is okay. What What is the history about this because a lot of other topics we could you know, it goes back to the history of where how cannabis was brought into, has been around for thousands of years, thousands of years. And so do you have any history of of cannabis and sex?
Unknown Speaker 20:25
Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, it's, it's pretty, it's pretty intricate. And the stigma that is attached to sexuality reaches back pretty far, but not in a uniform way across all cultures. So it is, in some ways difficult to get hard proof of what's, how it has been used. But I'll tell you one thing, anytime human beings have found a mind altering substance, the next thing they did was apply it to sex guaranteed, that happened right away. So the chances that the intoxicating effects of cannabis were discovered and that, you know, between three and five days later is probably the first time it was used to enhance sex is, is very slim. I mean, that's, that's what we do as human beings. Now, in terms of actual evidence that we have that cannabis is being used. We've got starting in ancient Egypt, some recent actually here, let me pull it up. I happen to have it here. So you have about 4000 years ago and ancient Mesopotamia and Egypt, you have gynecological use of cannabinoids, and these are often in childbirth is actually used to help the pain of childbirth for a very, very, very long time, anything that is kind of spastic pain, it seems to show up as an a treatment for you have the, the US through Africa, there's there's some evidence there that it was used on call, I got to bring up my screen again, here. There was some evidence that it was used there, topically, and we can talk about the the effects of whether we're talking about a medical use or a sexual enhancement use and that line gets really blurry, right? using it for cramps, and which we might solidly consider in the medical side of things, or using it to address issues of physical sexual response or dysfunction happening. You know, at what point are we are we in that, you know, one or the other? And I kind of feel like it's almost guaranteed that the pleasure enhancing effects were were taking place alongside of these medical effects right.
John Malanca 23:02
And I think one of the one of the Queen's throughout history use it for retro cramps.
Unknown Speaker 23:08
Yes, yeah, we have. There's the the Nordic princess what was her What was her name? She died of breast cancer in her early 20s. The ice made in the Siberian ice maiden. Yeah, yeah. So she was found with cannabis which was almost certainly used to relieve her pain from that that disease. And what we what we see also in Europe, the the concoction that witches This is timely considering that it's October, the concoction that witches were said to rub on their broomsticks, which may have been a real thing, actually, as it turns out, maybe not as developed as it was with witches and things like that. But using a broomstick as an applicator for topicals actually seems to be something that happened. So and that's where the myth comes from. But
John Malanca 24:00
what's that story? So I'm trying to as you as she's writing this broom, and I'm like, okay, topical. So is it in here? driving that?
Unknown Speaker 24:12
Well, it's allegedly, there was this ointment that would be placed on the broomstick, and witches would rub their pelvis on it.
John Malanca 24:20
And that was their adapter or their like, would they would sit on it and they would sit on it. Yeah. And that that's, I'm a visual person. I was like, okay, Where's she going with it?
Unknown Speaker 24:29
Well, I'm going to decline to demonstrate but
Unknown Speaker 24:33
but, but yeah, the, the that applet that was that kind of developed into this idea that which is used this ointment to fly right on their brooms. But there's some evidence that this method may have been used to. There may be various psychoactive in there, and cannabis was likely part of the preparation of some of these and that can be used to you know, everything again, from just releasing menstrual cramps to enhancing sexual response. And then, of course, as we know, in the turn of the last century, we had a real proliferation of cannabis tinctures, and various kinds of preparations. They're really ubiquitous at that at that time. And so those those I'm certain also, you know,
John Malanca 25:21
you're talking enhancements, we spoke about cannabinoids earlier. And I always said on my show I was talking about that's about 140 cannabinoids, I've heard anything from 113 260 and above where do you fall?
Unknown Speaker 25:35
Oh, gosh, um, well, I think that the, the number of them is interesting. I've heard everything from 86 to like 200. But what I found really interesting about it is that most of them are analogous in some way. So what we're really interested in are those cannabinoids that have some kind of unique action that is, is set them apart from a lot of their their cohorts. And we do see that with a number of different cannabinoids. Now, with regard to sexuality, this is an area that's deeply under researched, right? Like we can postulate based on other research what these things might do for sexuality but we badly need that actual study and I'm trying to get it done I'm in the in the process where
John Malanca 26:30
there's quite a few you know, you've you've worked with a couple in the others in the industry that I that I have known for years as well and so I who one being a doctor on that doctor, you know, I love him Yeah, we've been on a board with him he's been on the show as well too. And so since there's a speak CBD boom right everyone thinks CBD CBD CBD which is good and bad because there's I don't want people to be afraid of THC. And that's that's the thing that that a little toddler you bring?
Unknown Speaker 27:00
I was looking for my glass of water, which I left with. Oh, we're good. Thank you. Thank you very much appreciate it.
John Malanca 27:09
Well, if so, with the boom of CBD, of course, I don't want people to be afraid of THC and so does CBD work as well as THC does for sexual enhancement.
Unknown Speaker 27:24
Short answer No. Okay, long answer, strapping. Here's a long answer because my feelings about this. So so it's really unfortunate that CBD has come to dominate the cannabinoid marketplace the way that it has. And the reason for that is really appropriate to the topic that we're discussing, because CBD is what I call a promiscuous cannabinoid, meaning it has weak action at a large number of receptor sites. It is slutty and it's out there doing one night stands with these receptors, right. So because of that weak action, it is one of the worst cannabinoids to use in isolation. And what do we have in our current marketplace? Exactly that the the dominance of isolated CBD products, the only way to overcome that weak action in a CBD product in order to make it effective is to crank the dosage very, very high. And that comes with its own set of side effects. And CBD is not harmless. Just because it is not psychoactive, it actually has a number of drug interactions that people should really be wary of. If you're taking low doses, probably not something to worry about. But if you are taking these high medically active doses, it's contraindicated with every drug that grapefruit juice is. So if you wouldn't, you know, right, so if you wouldn't have grapefruit juice with a medication, you shouldn't be taking high doses of CBD with it either. This includes viagara relevant to my own work, so you would want to avoid taking high doses of CBD with viagara. CBD is a great cannabinoid, I do not dislike CBD. The problem is that it really shouldn't be used alone. THC is really your powerhouse when it comes to the sexual sexuality sex enhancing effects of cannabis, the things that people are going for that enhanced blood flow sensitivity, and enhanced Actually, I forgot to mention this earlier, but it's kind of one of the coolest parts enhanced orgasmic response. So you are more likely to have an orgasm, that orgasm is like more likely to be stronger. And if you are someone who is potentially multiply orgasmic, you are more likely to have that effect as a result of using cannabis as well. So All of these things come primarily from THC from what we know, although CBD plays a very important helper role, and it can, if present in significant quantity, it can help with a lot of what we would consider those dysfunction things, a lot of people use it for that tension. It's really helpful topically for inflammation, all of these, these kind of supporting activities. So THC is maybe the gas in your car there and CBD is going to be I don't know, the oil or something like that. Right?
Unknown Speaker 30:37
Well, but, you know,
John Malanca 30:40
thank you, thank you for I'm enjoying enjoying this conversation. And I'm thinking of all the calls that we've had over the years, with people giving us giving us call and asking, you know, I wish I present at conferences, both in the cannabis sector as well as out. And people who've watched our show has heard me talk about this, but I'll put a slide of a roll of duct tape on there and people will look at me in the audience and look at the slide like hey, yeah, the wrong slide up there. And I always say I was chuckling I said Actually, I don't want to say cannabis. He's like has it has 1,000,001 uses like duct tape down to it. It does. I mean it has so many benefits and even having this this this talk about cannabis and sex and spirituality and and communication you know a lot lot of the couples that that I speak to on a regular basis you sit use sex to escape use this technique, it's an escape rather than a journey they want to get away from their daily lifestyle. And I think this is something that that can bring them closer together and and forget about what what's going on in life for 510 15 minutes, two hours, three hours, however, they want to be intimate with each other. You know, and with that topic as well, it always comes in to the cannabis naive that I don't want to try this because of paranoia. And I don't want you know, and so what do you share? What can you share with with the the listeners that are that may have that have paranoia that we've all been paranoid on cannabis, you know, and nothing worse than, you know, you don't want to be in an intimate relationship with your partner and be paranoid, you know, and not looking each other's eyes. And yeah, I was thinking going a million miles over here while your partner's thinking this this and so what can you share about that?
Unknown Speaker 32:31
Yeah, I think that Dr. Tischler would, would really chime in there too. With regard to dosage. He's huge advocate of dosage regulation, especially for people who are new, which is the general rule is always start slow, start low, go slow. But the the idea that you may need very, very small dosages to achieve your effect, and that a little bit enhances, but a lot is gonna hurt the experience. Yeah. I think that the I think I want to bring it back around a little bit to the consent thing here as well, because the concerns with cannabis and consent violations are linked directly to overdoing it, basically, right. I there are some people, especially back in the 90s. They used to say, Oh, never never play Hi, you know, it's not a good idea to it. And even now, some people will say if you are intoxicated at all, that your consent is rendered invalid. And I think that that's not only wrong, but I think it's harmful, and that it takes the agency away from people, especially women. So if you are a little bit intoxicated, if you've had a glass of wine, or if you've had a puff on a joint, I don't think that your consent is rendered invalid. But we need to stop thinking about consent as a black or white thing given or not given. Consent is a gradient. And anytime that we engage in sexual partners sexual activity, you are accepting some level of risk of a consent violation. And some cases that amount of risk may be vanishingly small. But you are always doing that and the more factors you add in like intoxication, degree of intoxication, familiarity with your partner, although partnered sex is one of the places that consent violations will often happen and not be addressed or discussed meaningfully. So we do need to note that that is a commonplace and not okay occurrence. But the there are all these different things that come in and they all kind of add up to your own risk analysis with cannabis, people who are new, especially to to it will often want to try and edible and that's a really
John Malanca 34:59
good backup on this backup. Rewind 30 seconds here. Yeah. What about having a safety word? You know, because, you know, and that you could write down in your outline your your box, your checks that you the the boxes that you're checking. And but talking about consent, because it's a big topic. I mean, now, thankfully, yeah. Happened 2030 years ago, you're in court, you're seeing what's happening, you know, to a lot of these always say celebrities, but, you know, in the, in the in the in Hollywood, you know, I mean, clearly it's it's made its way around the globe, because what's going on, but have back to one on one with with your partner with your
Unknown Speaker 35:43
with your partner here. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 35:46
Yeah, if you want to talk about Yeah, absolutely. Juggling some basic, basic consent practices that are good to do for any kind of sexual encounter. Our I can go through some of those really quick and then just imagine increasing the importance of doing this. If you are in an intoxicated situation, or you're planning an intoxicated situation. The the I often say the antidote to risk is intentionality. So any amount of you're always taking on risk, but the only way that you can decrease that is to set out to only do what you're going to do on purpose, you know? And if you're doing that, yes, no, maybe list don't take anything from the maybe column. If you're high, you know, keep it in the yes column, right? Try to try to make sure that the person that you're with is someone who you understand and have some kind of set of nonverbal communications. Beyond that safe words are great, it is wonderful to have a safe word, something that you can do when you have reached the not okay, point. But ideally, you want there to be a lot of levels before you get to not okay, you want a lot of different ways to redirect what's going on before you hit not okay. And you can do that through nonverbal, simple, you know, ways to redirect your partner's body, you can do it through hand squeezes in the kink world there is, you know, very real and frequent situation where you can't talk. So what are you gonna do? Maybe you can use hand signals, one means yes, two means no squeezes something like that, the person you are with is also then under a greater burden of responsibility to check in with you more frequently. Consent is a two way process and people say how dry it must be to engage with with consent practices. So they're picturing a sexual interaction where I
John Malanca 37:54
like to check the checking it there we make sense
Unknown Speaker 37:57
people think of that as as a as a unsexy process. And I want to deeply challenge that notion, because every time it stopped thinking of it as a consent check in, but think of it as dirty talk. Okay, so every time how blue Can I get on this podcast?
John Malanca 38:16
Bring it on? We're gonna we're gonna open some eyes and ears. And I don't want people to be shy about this. I'm holding back.
Unknown Speaker 38:26
And even though I live in this world, I blushed for Yeah, so I
John Malanca 38:32
I'm glad you said that. Because, you know, I'm right. There are a couple of questions that I've held back and like, maybe you'll see this on the playback of like, No, I can't go this is what this is about. And I want it to be free talking. You're talking about I wasn't thinking about not being able to talk because of the kink thing.
Unknown Speaker 38:51
Yeah. So somebody has
John Malanca 38:54
to that. Yeah. So go on.
Unknown Speaker 38:55
But kingster is really lead the way in this this this way. Because if you're going to do something that's more risky, as powerplay is, right, you had better be more intentional with it. And so the code the Yes, no, maybe list that comes from the kink community This is that this codification of consent practices really comes from those who are operating at the fringes and have a deep incentive to make sure that what they're doing is consensual. So when it comes to a consent, check in if you're somebody that wants to check in, don't think of it as asking permission. Think of it as saying what you want to do. I want to slam you up against this wall and fuck you till you're sore.
John Malanca 39:38
How would you get that on my show? I can. No you can't.
Unknown Speaker 39:42
So if you're gonna say that, yeah. Just follow it up with would you like that or you? You'd like that, wouldn't you? That is a consent inquiry. It's hot. And it's a consent inquiry. Right? This is what I tried it Try to get home to people is it's this is not a dry process that is not a sterile process. This is a process of making sex better by making sure in as many ways as possible that your partner is really, really into it. And that only has the the effect of improving sex. It doesn't stop the action. It heightens it.
John Malanca 40:23
It hides it. I think it's setting the mood, you know, again, having that communication but again, use this as another another boost in your relationship or what what's about to happen. I'm a fan of massage, and I think starting out, that breaks the ice as well. Is this too hard? Just too soft? Do you like your feet? feet rough? Yeah. You know, and I think including that in in and having this one on one experience? I mean, who doesn't like the 123? wham bam, you know, but there's times there's times where you can have that. And there's times you can have the long, huh.
Unknown Speaker 41:05
Even you I've even
John Malanca 41:07
been a little
Unknown Speaker 41:08
John Malanca 41:10
Yeah, but that's what this is for. I mean, I I received these. I'm certainly received these questions daily. I received these questions all the time, too. And so that's why I wanted to have you on the show. You know, it's, it's funny, I grew up overseas, grew up here in the States. And then we were transferred overseas. And we came back. And I talked about this with my friends that I grew up with overseas. Because we missed the whole sex education classes here in the States. We were over there. We were overseas, I didn't touch what's that
Unknown Speaker 41:40
you didn't miss much.
Unknown Speaker 41:42
We knew how
John Malanca 41:44
I was asked him, it's like, did you have that target? No, we never had completely missed it completely missed it. So this wasn't a talk I had with my parents were nowadays my friends, kids are open smoking and junk with their parents or having the sex talk with their parents, which I think is very, very, very healthy. You know, it shares with them of what's right, what's wrong safety. You know, times have changed. I mean, times have changed. And so it's so that's why I was excited to have this conversation with you this topic, at least, to come on. So I cut you off, we were going to the massage the mode, the moon.
Unknown Speaker 42:23
Yeah, I mean, I wanted to make a quick note, as as a woman, there's a kind of a gendered way that this plays out. And a lot of men I think are not as aware of it. And so I like to I like to talk about it where I can that there's this strange tension where it's, it's difficult for a lot of women who are socialized a lot to, to not be forthright about our sexual desires. And if we are forthright, oftentimes will receive negative feedback from that. So creating a safe container for someone who walks through the world as female and is received as female, is is a really important thing and a burden that that falls on male partners if you're in a hetero sexual relationship, to to not just say the words, it's okay to tell me whatever you might want to do. But to live that and make sure that it really is okay. And also find opportunities to invite her not into your fantasies but for for you to be invited into hers. Most people being heterosexual, you know, I'm speaking in generalities here, but it's, it's something that I think does come out at a systemic level, that it's, it's not enough just to say yes or no, it's not enough just to say, Well, I told you, it's okay. To say whatever you want, you know, you have to you have to make it okay. And you have to be a safe person in and out of the bedroom. Right. And, and that's bigger work. Just like everything else. Sexuality is a microcosm of the bigger work. Right?
John Malanca 44:16
It is in AI and coming from an incredible relationship. I think trust is really in Oh, yeah. Which is really important. And so, you know, that's funny, that's where my vision is with this. where it was and that's why when you threw the kink in it, like I wasn't even thinking about that topic there. But trust is important, you know, inside and outside of the bedroom and housework everything and I think that should brings partners together. You know, it's uh, you know, I had a great marriage and so I'm not out there yet. And so I'm still picturing it. You know, one on one. And so, but you know, communication and trust is really, really important. And I know it's a, it's a topic, you know, men. I said most men think differently than women, you know. And so you're talking about? No, I'll tell you what my fantasies are meeting a woman sharing sharing the fantasies with their man with with the man.
Unknown Speaker 45:22
I think Dan Savage has some really great advice on this, he gets a lot of letters from guys that are wondering what they can do to enhance their wife's libido. They have a mismatch, and he's got a higher sex drive than she does. Dan's response is, think about what her day is, when's the last time you did the dishes? When's the last time you got the kids out the door? When's the last time it's not that she's not interested most of the time is that she's tired, because women bear much a very unfair proportion of household and emotional labor, in heterosexual partnerships. So she's doing 80% of the work to maintain the house. And then at the end of the day, you want her to flip the switch and be a sex goddess. Good luck, right? You need to think about things from her perspective. And think about her history. And think about everything else that has gone into getting her where she is today. And really be sensitive to that. And yeah, Dan Savage, just, you know, start with doing your part around the house and see if magically, her,
John Malanca 46:29
you know, those are the conversations I'm having with my friends. The husband's thing, one thing, the wife thing. Really, okay. on this list here, I'm getting up getting our child ready. You know, for school. Now, the school is 24. Seven at home, because they're not at school. She's working, she shopping, she's cleaning, she comes home, she's making dinner, she put the child near giving the child a bath, reading a book saying their prayers, whatever. So I think for anybody, your day is just like this. I'm done. Yes, no, you know, the man sitting there, like, you see, and you've seen in every movie, show, book cartoon, ready to go. It's like, really, let's back up there. That's why I think massage is really important. touches important. You know, big to get on that same level. I always say get away. You know, that's one thing when I was talking about date night, it's so important to have a date night, I don't care how busy you are, whatever it is, go do a date night, we'd be so slammed at work I would get we would go to the restaurant. We'd go in at five and be out of there by 530. Sometimes, you know, just because we were but I would put on our phone, I'd put a picture of Italy or a beach and I put it next to salt pepper shaker and the waiter would go, what's acid, we're getting away. And he's like, Man, that is so cool. That was our thing we get away for that one bit. And we just bring forget life. Forget life. And I think it's having a date night with your partner, your spouse. I'm thinking partner spouse, I'm not even thinking about you know, the singles that are running.
Unknown Speaker 48:19
Well, this brings up a thing that I I probably should have mentioned earlier, but I'm gonna say right now before you in before you introduce cannabis to your partnered sex, yeah,
Unknown Speaker 48:32
start with a date night for yourself.
Unknown Speaker 48:36
Because before you are in a situation, whether you're concerned, you know, hopefully you're not concerned about consent violations. But whether you are concerned about your ability to be present with a certain dosage or a certain strain or anything like that. Or you just want to make sure that it's the right vibe. Take yourself on a date first and see how this particular preparation works for you. And then you have that data, you're armed with that when you go into a partnered situation. And that way there's less variables. Date Night is such a great idea both for yourself and with your partner. And you can bring cannabis into that. And Heck, you know, share a joint and listen to some Pink Floyd together jack the speaker in and just groove out together and you can really connect at a much deeper level. Even even in this weird situation. In fact,
John Malanca 49:32
you're too young for painful Lloyd
Unknown Speaker 49:34
No, no, I heard Pink Floyd in the cradle man. Oh my God used to play that for me. Oh,
John Malanca 49:39
boy. Oh, boy. Yeah, that that that. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 49:44
Yeah. So So yeah, that's definitely a good practice and a good self self care practice as well.
John Malanca 49:53
Great, great points. So let's talk about date night by yourself. date night with your with your partner. There are so many different products out there I mean so many different products out there How do you I mean especially with the CBD market you know I mean you can go down if this is going to drive me nuts about about the media. You know everyone thinks CBD CBD CBD, what I do go down to a gas station buy my second product or a CBD product? Probably not. Where do you find a? a?
Unknown Speaker 50:31
are you blushing them? I
Unknown Speaker 50:33
always I have rosacea. So it's okay to tell whether I'm blushing or just not taking care of my skin? No,
John Malanca 50:39
no. So So how does the How does someone find a reliable product? You know, for this? I know their story. I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area. So there are stores that publicly advertise on the radio and stuff like that, and I applaud them because I think it breaks the ice. It's It's It's still taboo. Yeah, but I remember people the first time when I walked into a dispensary you know, she just felt like what am I doing? I'm doing something wrong. I'm walking into this location that has all this stuff called mu cannabis. And I'm not supposed to be here because this is what I was brought up to you know, to know and the same thing with with couples I talked about you know, go into store walk in there. Look point giggle chuckle whatever you know, but it break the ice and so but when it comes to products in the cannabis center industry, I know there are a handful you have one so I want you to talk about your what you what you're doing. What which they look at you know, you know, I had you know, I had someone who was embarrassed to buy one online buy some of these products online and they lived in the legal state so they had their friend get it and it's just I don't want that coming to my house and it's like So what can you What can you share one couples that are or story individuals that are embarrassed to purchase it and have it sent to their house? Or what should they look out for?
Unknown Speaker 52:03
Yeah, this is a really cruel and tragic and I again I'm not exaggerating, I think sexuality is really central and really important to life so I don't think this is a minor issue at all the fact that we have taken these any any products designed to enhance sex with that have THC in them have to for regulatory reasons by law live in a cannabis specific store and that's really inappropriate actually because the the people who work there didn't sign up to be sex educators and they're not trained as such and the people who are going in there you're you don't want to ask for lube next to you know from somebody that looks like your grandpa standing next to somebody that looks like your son. This is why we have sex specific stores because when you when you go into one of these shops and thank goodness now we have a lot of good options we have babe land and Good Vibrations which are now actually merged. You have a lot of these great shops where the people that work there you can comfortably ask them they do this all day long, it's fine you know, whereas in a shop you don't know who you're going to talk to in a pawn shop you don't know who you're going to talk to and it's
Unknown Speaker 53:19
you're talking to a dispensary right at
Unknown Speaker 53:21
a dispensary Yeah, up and see up in Washington we say pot shop. But
John Malanca 53:25
yeah, I mean, but even down here, but that's the thing, even with even with that's why even with dispensaries I always recommend having a doctor involved for whatever product because chances are whoever's in dispensary like you're saying they're not a sex expert. They're not a cannabis expert. They don't know, if you have diabetes, and you're or you're on other medications or you are taking Viagra. You know, there are drug to drug interactions and so, but for what you're talking about, you know, the stores and in obtaining obtaining the sexual products, talk to somebody that that that knows about this right?
Unknown Speaker 54:05
Well, I wish that I could confidently give that advice. Actually, the problem is the chances of you finding a doctor that is educated in these two areas is very slim. There are you know, four or five people that are really specialists in this area. And Dr. Tischler is one of them, which is how our paths came to cross. There, there are very few people who are standing in the middle of this Venn diagram. And that's actually how I got started in the industry in the first place is I was intending on being a sex educator. That was my job. I was I was going to do that. The, you know, I graduated into the recession in 2005. And so, you know, it was building that business and I was working at my friend's pot shop, you know, like that was, that was what I was doing. And, and, and then I see these products come in and this is actually 2011 They have these terrible names and they contain ingredients like glycerin, which is food for the bad actors in the vaginal biome. They've got propylene glycol or other glycols, which are endocrine disruptors. And these are things that really don't belong in a vagina. And so I'm noticing that there's these people who know a lot about weed. And then there's people who know a lot about sex and sexual product development. And there's very few people who live in both of those worlds. And that's why I decided to step into that role. And there's a few other people who have done the same thing. So unfortunately, while I'd like to say talk to your doctor, your doctor is not likely to be educated on both of these things. Talk to you know, you can give me a call and I'll do a consultation or you can talk to Dr. Tischler you can visit our sex and cannabis specialist Association, which is just sex and cannabis calm, and you can get some basic knowledge there. And if you have any questions, you know, we're happy to field them. The what was I going out? So how to find the right products is really the overarching question here. And because of this lack of knowledge out there, this lack of education and the dual stigmatization, you are in a buyer beware position even more than people who are getting cannabis for say pain relief. You really in this this spot where you have to be hyper vigilant about what the ingredients are, you have to know what ingredients to avoid. And we do have an article on the sexing cannabis.com website where you can read what ingredients to avoid. And you have to also think about what your safer sex protocols are. If you are someone that is using any kind of barrier, whether it's latex nitrile, poly ice cream, or even polyurethane they used to say polyurethane was safe, but those are Trojan supras. Those are no longer considered safe with any oil based preparation. This becomes a problem because cannabinoids are most often extracted into oil. Right? Almost everything out there is going to be oil based in one way or another. That can be fine if you're not using barriers. There are some drawbacks though particularly for people with vaginas you you may find that oils don't work for you for any number of reasons. The type of oil that is used is relevant. You don't want an oil that has too high wax content that can create areas for bacteria and yeast to thrive and lead to infections. Even cleaner oils are not compatible with some people's biome. Some people find the smell off putting the cannabis herbaceous smell some people don't find pleasant in a sexy context. Sometimes they don't like the staining you know, you have nice lingerie, you don't want to have oil base stuff staining. And so my business partner and I and we have again, I just split off to do my own consulting, but we founded this this company velvet swing to address those those very problems because everything else out there was essentially oil based and had these drawbacks, but our main concern both coming from the sexual health advocacy and sex positivity worlds, what was the barrier compatibility issue? Right? Most people, muggles, I call them people who don't live sex 24 seven. Most people just don't know that oil is not compatible with condoms. They just don't know that. And bud tenders don't know that. You know, so people are going into these shops and they're buying products that are that are that are
Unknown Speaker 58:46
compromising their safer sex methods.
John Malanca 58:50
They're not they're not compatible. What did you do to break down the condom? or?
Unknown Speaker 58:53
Yeah, it does. Yeah, yeah. It's, uh, it is about the Oh, my gosh, I think I'm, I've been doing so many calls this morning. Like I told you, I've been on so many phone calls. It is yes, essentially. So you have the polarity. That's the word I was looking for, like, the the polarity of oil prevents the it gets in the way of the bonds of the latex, basically, right? So you're more likely to have breakage, you can have degradation that compromises the integrity of the barrier without having breakage, which is kind of your worst case scenario, because then you've had a failure without a break. You don't know it, right?
Unknown Speaker 59:36
Unknown Speaker 59:37
And so these these just oil plus barriers of any kind if you're going to use oil with a barrier, you can try it with polyurethane which is protrusion supers, but they have said Trojan has said they do not want to represent that as as a safe choice. Basically, if oil then no barrier you need to choose a different method of birth control. This is for topicals, which our are a non generally asterisk here they are non intoxicating for the vast majority of people the vast majority of the time.
John Malanca 1:00:15
So, so, you know, probably people I have a lot of people blushing here, are they edible? Yes,
Unknown Speaker 1:00:22
mostly Yeah, again, you wouldn't want to be ingesting some of the ones that are formulated poorly. But the idea that it's not intoxicating is just tied to that localized effect if you're just using it on your genitals, let's say also works for areolas. But if you are trying to avoid intoxication, don't put it in your digestive tract. So don't use it as oily and don't use it orally. If you get enough of it, then you can experience psychoactive high. But generally speaking, the quantity that you're ingesting is small, right? You're not getting a whole lot of milligrams of THC, but it's completely possible. In general, vaginas are not designed to absorb things and put them in the bloodstream. But a little bit does happen. So you know, maybe a milligram or two maybe at most right would happen in in regular intercourse. And that's not a concern for the vast majority of people but it can aggregate if you use a lot and we got some fun stories from our test group about that. So So yeah, that's for topicals for for systemics which is any edible any smokeable vapable thing, anything that's going to go through your bloodstream and I guess would include tinctures as well. Although those are kind of straddling the line.
John Malanca 1:01:50
Do you have a whole product line or
Unknown Speaker 1:01:52
Yeah, well there's two products in Washington. velvet swing is the the topical that we developed that is the first THC the first THC water based topical
John Malanca 1:02:05
not available in all 50 states. So basically, if you absolutely not known to be up in Washington,
Unknown Speaker 1:02:11
or California, or California distribution has decreased the the Sacramento area the San Francisco area is kind of your best bet to get it they're very well distributed
John Malanca 1:02:23
have a good vibrations. That was storage talking about
Unknown Speaker 1:02:26
no because it has THC, this is the problem.
John Malanca 1:02:28
Use me that's what you're saying. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. You're going into a dispensary.
Unknown Speaker 1:02:33
Yeah, yeah, you have you got you have to you right. And you, you can get these CBD versions, you can make it at home even. And that's it's a pretty similar infusion process to making any other kind of infused oil. But then you're dealing with oil. So the water based thing is actually a very tricky, complicated development process. We did a lot of work to ensure that it is not going to compromise barriers as that was our main thing. But it's not easy. And so finding a waterbase version is difficult. And so we wanted to provide that if you're in Washington.
John Malanca 1:03:12
Yeah. Just this is a question that again, just popped in my head right now. Does it come up show up on a drug test?
Unknown Speaker 1:03:19
Yes. If generally, no. If you have if you have one interaction with it? No, probably not. But again, it's about how much as long as you're not ingesting it. Let's assume heterosexual
John Malanca 1:03:32
you're talking right? Because it regularly comes up with depositories. Yes. Industry and a lot of pay a lot of doctors it's literally on the fence we did an article is the post here your superior for rectal suppositories. Yeah, we got a lot of, as I say a lot of shit. But we did. We had a lot of people that got really pissed off at us. They're saying there's no it's impossible. It doesn't break the blood brain barrier and stuff like that. I've seen piece. I've seen it work on patients that are cancer patients. Yeah. And if something told me or my wife that eating a pen would work, you better believe I'm gonna eat it. And so I don't want to ever take any hope away from anybody that has an issue. Just because it's so that's why I was asking about that. Yeah, what you're doing I was at the hour, and I apologize. So if we want to in closing, if we finish that then we do in closing, but I do want to plug your business.
Unknown Speaker 1:04:22
No, there's a couple Well, I have as I said, I have separated them. My business now is sabara Consulting era, and you can Google that and or you can go to Chelsea sabara.com. Again, CBA ra is how my last name is spelled. And I am looking for work right now. So let me know if you want to collaborate. Yeah, and so yeah, rectally, quickly rectally. We're talking about dense vasculature here in the rectum and anywhere else. So anywhere that you have that dense blood vessel, you're getting a little bit of absorption. Yeah. And so that ends And the only other thing that I just really like to say, I think we covered everything else is any time that you are using these topical products, I want to try to discourage people thinking of them as lubes people call them. Weird. That was a wind gust that was strange people, their marketing, they're called lubes a lot of times, and while they are slick and looby, I really want to drive home the point that you do not use them for lubrication, they are topicals. So this is something that you want to apply, and allow to soak in. Give it time, ideally 20 to 40 minutes, if you can wait that long, and you will have a much better effect. Again, topicals, not, not lubes and you can use them for lubrication to later but if you're What if you're trying to enhance your sensation, let it sit,
John Malanca 1:05:52
apply, give that massage. Perfect, you know, and what you're talking about. And I and I and away I go with this, but you're talking two things you're talking not the lube but but the the oil based to put down wait 20 to 40 minutes. Earlier in the conversation. We were talking for enhancement, you know, both physically, emotionally, spiritually, you're saying ingesting via smoking, tincture or edible that helps the body with CV, especially the brain with the CB one receptor and n CB two receptors, you know, throughout throughout our bodies. And bringing it in in I want to say intensifying that sexual experience by yourself or
Unknown Speaker 1:06:37
with your partner.
Unknown Speaker 1:06:38
Yeah, absolutely. With that you don't have to worry as much if you're smoking or if you're vaping. But with it when it comes to edibles and again, I do try to discourage people from using edibles. They're sexy, and they're cute and you they seem like a natural fit. But because you don't know where you're at, then you get into this zone where it's so easy to overdo it. We all had that situation with that brownie in college, didn't we you know, and and that plus sex is a bad scene because one of the things that can happen if you do have too much is you go nonverbal. And that really makes it difficult to communicate with your partner. So unless you're a pro at this, I really say stay away from the edibles focus on light, low dosage and topicals I think the two of them together is a great combo and and and you'll have a much better time.
John Malanca 1:07:31
Wait, Chelsea, I can't thank you enough. Can you give your your your new business to plug as well?
Unknown Speaker 1:07:38
Yeah, absolutely sabara Consulting, and I'm focusing on anyone who who wants to refine their products or branding, but I'm really making it a drive for folks who are new to the cannabis industry who maybe are unfamiliar with formulating with cannabinoids, so product development, any kind of brand refinements or even content I'm doing a little bit of content work right now you can come to Chelsea sabara CHLSEAC Ba ra calm and drop me a line and let me know what you'd like to do together.
John Malanca 1:08:14
Great. Thank you so and and are you in depth phone numbers nowadays too? Are you out and just haven't caught contact up?
Unknown Speaker 1:08:19
Just shoot me an
Unknown Speaker 1:08:20
email? Yeah, I would get a whole bunch of stuff if you know,
John Malanca 1:08:24
thousands and thousands. It never ends here too. So Justice abbar I thank you so much for being on and having this conversation with me and and our and our followers. I think we'll we have a few blushes for the first time on the show here too. So but I thank you and and thank you for our listeners for you know, this is a topic that comes up quite a bit. Sometimes it's taboo for some other times, you know, people just want to learn and don't know and it's not a it's not illegal to ask a question about sex or cannabis. But again, this is not to replace a one on one with your doctor, your counselor, but I hope this in in helps you with your life as well. And so, John Malanca blushing with the United States with the United Nations group being formed in V well, and we'll see you soon. Thank you.
Unknown Speaker 1:09:17