Be Informed. Be Well. With John Malanca

You are Not Alone, Cannabis and Mental Illness. With Paul Bregman, MD

November 10, 2020 John Malanca Season 1 Episode 23
Be Informed. Be Well. With John Malanca
You are Not Alone, Cannabis and Mental Illness. With Paul Bregman, MD
Show Notes Transcript

In this compelling interview, John Malanca hosts Paul Bregman, MD as he discusses his battle with a late diagnosis of Bi-Polar type Two at age 41 at the pinnacle of his career as a radiologist.  He discusses the isolation, personal care concerns, electric shock therapy and his use of inhalation THC in the treatment of this challenging disorder.

Mental Illness remains a taboo topic and is particularly challenging for professionals who ultimately suffer under the strain and stress of their chosen careers.  In this podcast, John discusses the moment Paul Bregman, MD was essentially “diagnosed” by a colleague during a work conversation.  

Dr. Bregman discusses coming to terms with his illness, best care for him, his use of Electric Shock Therapy, Ketamine, anti-depressants and THC cannabis via inhalation only.  His openness and personal sharing will keep you interested while rooting for this remarkable doctor.

HOPE is his ultimate message. 

John Malanca  0:01  
Welcome back, everybody, this is John Malanca. With united patients group be informed and be Well, today, I have a special guest. This is a friend that Corinne and I met early on in this industry, I think around 2011/2012 at a conference and have stayed in touch over the years as well. Paul Bregman, MD, Dr. Bregman, how are you doing? Paul...

Paul Bregman, MD  0:28  
it's good to see you. I'm here in Denver, Colorado,

John Malanca  0:30  
really good to see you as well. And so I appreciate you reaching out, you know, you you've you've, we've kept in contact over the years, I remember, we met when Corinne and I had a home office. So that was a long time ago, and then kept in contact ever since. And then you reached out again recently. She's checking in with me, and I was checking in with you, and you know, paid your condolences as Corinne and I had a home office. So that was a long time ago, and then kept in contact ever since. And then you reached out again recently. Checking in with me, and I was checking in with you, and you know, paid your condolences and like everybody in this industry, loved Corinne So that was a long time ago, and then kept in contact ever since. So thanks. Thanks for being who you are. You have a great story. And the reason I have I have Paul on because Paul seen both sides of this industry. One is a doctor, a medical doctor, but also as a patient. And I think his story will be very touching to many of you that may be going through the same. And so, Paul, have at it, please introduce yourself. You're I know you're a cannabis doctor, you're an MD, and a patient. And so can you share a little little bit of background and then where we are here today?. So thanks. Thanks for being who you are. You have a great story. And the reason I have I have Paul on because Paul seen both sides of this industry. One is a doctor, a medical doctor, but also as a patient. And I think his story will be very touching to many of you that may be going through the same. And so, Paul, have at it, please introduce yourself. You're I know you're a cannabis doctor, you're an MD, and a patient. And so can you share a little little bit of background and then where we are here today?and I know, like everybody in this industry, you know, love Quran. So thanks. Thanks for being who you are. You have a great story. And the reason I have I have Paul on because Paul seen both sides of this industry. One is a doctor, a medical doctor, but also as a patient. And I think his story will be very touching to many of you that may be going through the same. And so, Paul, have at it, please introduce yourself. You're I know you're a cannabis doctor, you're an MD, and a patient. And so can you share a little little bit of background and then where we are here today? You have a great story. And the reason I have I have Paul on because Paul has seen both sides of this industry. One is a doctor, a medical doctor, but also as a patient. And I think his story will be very touching to many of you that may be going through the same. And so, Paul, have at it, please introduce yourself. You're I know you're a cannabis doctor, you're an MD, and a patient. And so can you share a little little bit of background and then where we are here today?

Paul Bregman, MD  1:30  
Sure. It's a pleasure to see you. It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you very much. My story is interesting, because my I'm a board certified cannabis expert. And before that, a trained radiologist that I practiced for about 10 years. But in I also suffer with a chronic mental illness, bipolar type two, and which is different than bipolar type one. And so I'm speaking to you from the perspective of both being a doctor but also trying to manage his bipolar two, which has been a difficult time I was diagnosed, I'm 70. Now I was diagnosed at age 41, felt the effect starting at age 29. And ultimately had to retire disabled because of the bipolar type two, and disability and depression in 1995. So now it's 2000 and, and 20. So I come at this from the point of view of mine, my bipolar was medical school was fine. And I became a doctor and I went into residency. And that's where my mood started to shift, but I really didn't know about it. So I went through my 30s and finally got diagnosed with a mood disorder, the bipolar type two, in 1991, when I was 41 years old. And so with that, I was diagnosed with psychiatrist and I was practicing radiology at a big scene County Hospital being successful in radiology, and breast imaging. And then I spoke to him and that begin can began a saga in the world of mental illness and trying to be treated and then worked and subsequently married and divorced, etc. Cannabis has played an interesting and and life saving role, or for me, in combination with expertise from the Western world and psychiatrists, combined with expertise in the cannabis world because I was a late comer to cannabis as treatment. I should go back and say that my father also suffered with bipolar type two, more depression and irritability, who has more irritability, there's bipolar type one which is more mania, manic depression, the old term mania and depression. Bipolar two is mostly irritability, as well as depression with some hypomania, which is to a lesser degree. For me, the depression is the worst. And what caused me to go and finally resign my work and go inactive and be disabled. And then

that was at age 45. And it also turned out to be that it was treatment resistant, in fact that I tried all of these different cocktails of medicines, anti psychotics, anti depression, all of them maybe 1520 different cocktails and they will didn't work for me. So ultimately, I wound up going to electroshock therapy between 1994 and 2002. Every winter, because of seasonal affective disorder, and the electroshock therapy worked. But there were a couple of traumatic experiences that happen one in a million times. And I didn't go back because I was too afraid. That was in 2002. So between that time, it's been a very suffering, depression. I got, I had to leave work in 1995. I ultimately got married in 1997, to a woman, and we had two children. I was age 51, when I had my first child, and 54. So I have a 16 year old and a 19 year old child now, and my ex wife is 17 years younger. But the key thing for me was the fact of realizing that I had this illness. And it was very difficult, because it's taken me a very long time to come to grips with the fact of having a chronic mental illness. And when medicines didn't work, and the doctors, and I was faced with electroshock therapy every every year, and I got afraid of that for yesterday's events. I found cannabis medicine in cannabis in 2005. And with that, I just read an article, I went out to the garage, I took a couple puffs of cannabis flour, I wasn't a big user before then it lifted my mood within a minute, I came to the house and had like a two year old, a five year old. And it changed my personality, for the first time like no other medicines, in the fact where I felt like a normal person. And I could be laughable, I could be friendly. I could be embracing, I could be all of the things that I would imagine a young father to be to their children. I wasn't necessarily Hi, I just my mood had been lifted up. And that's the way it's been for me since 2005 or 1995, where I've used cannabis, in addition to some Western medicines, Depakote, and to Mazza Pam, for sleep, and some volume of times. But in combination, if I don't have the THC that lifts my mood, and gives me it makes me be productive for at least two to three hours. And I can't use edibles because of a defect in the metabolism of my liver. But so I inhale just a little bit, and it lifts my mood makes me productive, and makes me a happier and easier person less irritable, and certainly lifts my depression.

John Malanca  8:01  
Well, thank you for that. You and I've had many phone calls over the years, which had been some tough phone calls of just sadness and depression saying, you know, where do I go and so, you know, you're not alone to her and then do a lot of our listeners, I know you're gonna, this is gonna resonate to a lot of our listeners, because, you know, a lot of people feel alone going through this when I had Beth dastan talking about her fibromyalgia. She was kind of hesitant at first to say, I have fibromyalgia for the past 20 some years. And we had so many people that wrote back to us and said, that's what I'm going through. I thought I was alone. Let me go back to your you mentioned Kim earlier at the very beginning. Is that was that your ex wife?

Paul Bregman, MD  8:42  

John Malanca  8:42  
Christie, but who was Kim?

Paul Bregman, MD  8:45  
Kim? A adult? No.

John Malanca  8:48  
Okay. I don't know her either. You're yours. Well, you did give me hope because I'm 53. And I don't have kids. And people are saying Why Do you have kids? I'm like, I'm too old. So you had your first 51 so right. My whole

Paul Bregman, MD  9:01  
my whole life has been really predicated on the fact that this man, yeah, my marriage, my having children. My Everything has been predicated on the fact of the matter of survival, and trying to make it work. It's a very topsy turvy life. And this is the reason why people with chronic mental illness over a period of time. On top of what I had with depression. There's some depressions that don't have this and some depressions have suicidal ideation. So I've gone through at least three quarters of my life, thinking about suicide, but never tried to commit suicide, but just being scared of it, as well as having the kids and things like that. So it's it's really tough, and so it's affected everything in my life.

John Malanca  9:54  
Yeah, and I and I know that before I went to Kim, I was gonna go back to your father Was he was he clinically diagnosed because we really didn't hear about bipolar until last 1520 years, you know, at least

Paul Bregman, MD  10:09  
Oh, he was not clinically came back from the war. Got married to my mother. He had two children just fell into that whole thing. Yeah, I grew. I was born in 1950. He got married, I think, you know, whenever soon before that, and they had two children. And that's but so he was he never thought about going to a psychiatrist.

John Malanca  10:31  
Yeah, probably not, huh. And then with your other sibling, how are they doing?

Paul Bregman, MD  10:35  
My sister does not have the illness. You know, she has, she doesn't have it. yet. She's very successful in her mood is on an even keel. She's waking up.

John Malanca  10:49  
Yeah. Yeah. Um, with cannabis. You know, cannabis wasn't wasn't your lifestyle. Like many of the doctors and nurses and experts that we see No,

Paul Bregman, MD  11:00  
not at all. And not? Not at all. I used the minimally. I wasn't I used some other drugs along the way. Yeah, you know, a little cocaine here and there when I was in my 30s, and things like that clay lutes and things like that. But I never did LSD. I never smoked a lot of weed. No, this was not part of my ama brought out all.

John Malanca  11:24  
Not at all. Not at all. So with you trying that it had you always Have you always been in Colorado?

Paul Bregman, MD  11:30  
No, I was born in New York City raised in New Jersey College in New Orleans. And then my first job was in Portland, Oregon. And then I've been here for 30 plus years.

John Malanca  11:40  
Gotcha. But you were the first time you use cannabis when you were 41? Or I say the first time you use it? No, no,

Paul Bregman, MD  11:45  
the first time that I used it was when I was medical school a few times. And you know that type of deal. Yeah, but ology college? I don't I didn't use it in college. Yeah. No, but when you

John Malanca  11:57  
snuck out to the garage. Were you living in Colorado at that time?

Paul Bregman, MD  12:00  
Yes. I moved here in 87. And at that time, I was that was 1995. I was in Colorado.

John Malanca  12:07  
If the reason I say where I'm going with this, if you did not live in Colorado at that time, do you think you would have tried cannabis?

Paul Bregman, MD  12:16  
Yeah, because at that time, I still had to get the cannabis illegally. So wherever I was, and I read that article,

John Malanca  12:22  
so you knew you knew about cannabis and bipolar?

Paul Bregman, MD  12:26  
No, I just read about cannabis and mood. Okay, lifting my mood. So wherever I was, I would have found a way to figure out for cancer, you know, to me because even then, between 1995 I was getting the cannabis illegally here in Colorado.

John Malanca  12:44  
It's well I think there's there's always has been the black market and you know, a lot of families we speak with good friends of ours. You know, they have children and when they're talking about all the dispensary popping up in California, they were really against it and I said, Listen, to get into a dispensary you have to have it be at that time. Over 21 with a medical card. There's a bouncer at front there's a someone checking you in before you make into the back so they're really really your children don't have access to it. But they'll always have access access to it. You know, they'll always know somebody at school who's selling cannabis so that's that's that's how I was going with that. with bipolar you mentioned THC but you've also has talked about CBD. What you know, for patients that I've worked with, they've I've had patients I've had success with high levels of THC and other high level CBD. And were you in there I know and I know us both are you still using both?

Paul Bregman, MD  13:51  
I am still using both CBD is newer on the scene. But really for me, it was a matter of using the THC to an very minimal amount like one or two puffs. You know me, I and I have to inhale because edibles I wish I could take edibles, but they don't get metabolized in my liver. So tinctures don't work necessarily work. So inhaling it one two puffs only, you know, two three times a day gives me enough THC lift my mood and provide the energy boost that I need. And that is dosage control, so I don't get too anxious. And the CBD that I take in tincture form now just rounds out the mellowness of any anxiety. The best is when you have flour that may be one to one or two to one or B to one CBD to THC and then the high as much as mellow as that goes. So I'm an inhaler. I used maybe a Pax vaporizer or when it was working That's how it works best for you.

John Malanca  15:02  
So hopefully Pax is on here, which is a great brand, maybe they'll maybe they'll send you a new and maybe when you get that to work out,

Paul Bregman, MD  15:09  
or volcano is the best, but I mean, vaporizing is the best, but really, I use a glass pipe for one or two tiny puffs, and it helps me a great deal.

John Malanca  15:19  
Are you finding success? A lot of patients we work with have found success by certain terpenes are you? Are you going that far deep into that by by finding cannabis or any cannabinoids that have certain Yeah,

Paul Bregman, MD  15:31  
I don't have access to it. And I don't necessarily believe I don't think that dispensaries are going into that depth, except maybe one in Boulder, who is more medically geared? I just go in really looking for the fact that I don't ask that question is just the THC, you know, to get me through. Gotcha. I'd like to be able to dial it in. Yeah, that would be nice to be able to dial it in. But no.

John Malanca  16:00  
Yeah, there's a doctor there. And I'll introduce you. She's actually out of Colorado as well, Dr. Susan trap. And she specializes in terpenes. And I've worked with her on other shows, and I'll be happy inviting her on to this show.

Paul Bregman, MD  16:12  
I just met her. I just met her two weeks ago.

John Malanca  16:15  
It is she wonderful. I mean, I just found out that there's over 55,000 terpenes out there, which I had didn't have I didn't I didn't have a clue how many terpenes are out there. So I learned each and every day. You know, not only in this show, but out at life I learn every day. So in with your bi polar. Do you want to call it a disease? Because a lot of bipolar patients?

Paul Bregman, MD  16:41  
They don't want to call it? Yes, this is a disease. This is real?

John Malanca  16:47  
Well, the reason I say that because a lot of the PTSD patients we work with, they don't want to call Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, they don't want to call it disorder. And a lot of bipolar patients that I've worked with don't want to call it a disease and so I I kind of want to be politically correct.

Paul Bregman, MD  17:06  
neurotransmitters, and this is a real mental illness is real. And so it's right in there with any other disease that you would definition of a disease in my opinion. Okay, as I say,

John Malanca  17:20  
it's so with the science, you being a medical doctor, how is that working with the brain when when cannabinoids enter the body?

Paul Bregman, MD  17:29  
Okay, so remember, and this is a remembrance for all of the people. It's not an either or world. I use cannabis, in addition to psychiatric medicines that helped me with my hypomania, helped me with being calm, helped me with sleep, as well. That's way it started out. So sometimes it would be a combination of using the two in some case, for let's say, anxiety, or sleep, if you have a cannabis consult, and I recommend the cannabis consult with an expert regarding mental illness to be part of the team approach with regards to this, then you may be able to use CBD for anxiety or cbda. Or you may be able to use some CBD or a little bit of THC for sleep as well, so that they should just be part of the team. So the question, go back to the question again, I'm sorry.

John Malanca  18:27  
Yes. I'm trying to think the question about how it affects cannabinoids affect the brain and helping bring the balance of of what you're going through.

Paul Bregman, MD  18:37  
It's all a matter of neurotransmitters. It's just like dopamine, serotonin, all of the ones that control your mood in my case, okay? Just like in anxiety because like in depression, simple depression. Remember bipolar is a mood disorder. So it's both up and down. But it all involves neurotransmitters in the brain that are being affected by the THC CBD and the minor cannabinoids as well, as well as the terpenes as well.

John Malanca  19:10  
And I like your case, because a lot of people you know, it's not a one size fits all and I and as Dr. Bregman was saying, you know, this is not to replace on one on one with you with your physician or medical practitioner. Everyone's different, what worked for Dr. Bregman. So what else would the same disease if you want to say may use a different formulation? Or or ratios and so are you taking Are you trying to find a cannabis product that has a combiner you take in teaching the morning CBD in the day or?

Paul Bregman, MD  19:44  
Or how am I mixing the THC? I use THC flour? Yeah, and I do. Now, I asked for city versus a TiVo hybrid between you and me and me and me in the industry. All of it is mixed up. Unless you know the genetics They don't know what city Viva, and they don't know what's in deca and maybe personal experience, no question about it. But I go in and asking for Citibank or Citibank hybrid. And but if they gave me indika, it's the THC. What I look for ratios like one to one or two to one flower, but it's just hard to find this, at least here in Colorado, he still don't have a lot of dispensaries that are selling the ratios like they should.

Unknown Speaker  20:30  
Even in Colorado,

Paul Bregman, MD  20:32  
even in Colorado,

Unknown Speaker  20:33  
that's that's that's, you know,

John Malanca  20:34  
you would think the opposite. You know, you would think the opposite. You know, one thing that that I always say is that the recreational market and correct me if I'm wrong, you live in Colorado, but we work with so many Coloradans that the recreational market really is pushed out the medical patient and so a lot of patients and it's we're having hearings in California as well, where the doctors are losing their businesses, because people are saying, I don't need to go to a doctor anymore. I can just go down to the dispensary and buy. Oh, you want to buy this? Yes, yes, yes. And they're like, what I do with it? Well, that's why the doctors are there. They look at age weight, current health condition, sensitivities, what other medications you're on, there are drug to drug interactions. And so with drug to drug interactions, I know you mentioned a few earlier, are you still doing that? Or have you been able to titrate down on any of those?

Paul Bregman, MD  21:23  
I'm still taking it. I haven't changed anything the last 25 years and some of the medicines that I've had, and I just haven't felt the need, I feel a certain balance has been reached. But for for for me, but certainly it's something to consider. When you speak to a cannabis console. You know, you have an expert on the team. See the john what you just said, unfortunately, if people do, we're still necessarily getting cards and going to the doctors, there are only a maybe about 20 doctors in the country that really know how to dose. Thank you, Madam this medicine. mental illness is tricky and do follow up. But it's for anything chronic pain, cancer, Ms. Any conditions that you notice? No, no, have very few doctors that know. And then very few doctors that will take the time to be able to call and have a team for follow up to adjust the dosing.

Unknown Speaker  22:21  

John Malanca  22:22  
I'm glad you said that. Because I always talk about that. That's unfortunate that there's only a handful of doctors in in the US that really know about dosing, most of them will say, Here you go, Paul coming in a year if you want to renew, and it's like, I need more than that, or we we receive the calls from from families and patients saying, okay, I received my card receipt, I have my medicine, but my doctor doesn't know what to do with it. And, and I just Yeah, exactly, exactly. And so they're kind of like, what do we do now we're still in the dark, we have it, but we're still in the dark now. Or they buy 50 different products to try them off.

Paul Bregman, MD  23:00  
JOHN, that's the biggest black call. One of that's probably the biggest black hole in our industry. And the idea is just for interesting sake, is a shout out to Dr. Ouma in Massachusetts, she's on the verge, she loves to use the word titration as opposed to dosing, because she thinks that big pharma is going to eventually come in and use the term dosing as well, as opposed to us using a tration. So that's an aside, but But getting back to the point is just what you just what we were talking about.

Unknown Speaker  23:37  
Yeah, yeah.

John Malanca  23:38  
And I know Dr. Amma, she actually crinan I did a conference in Maryland. And she was one of our speakers as well back in 2017. So she's doing a lot of stuff in the industry. And I and

Paul Bregman, MD  23:49  
lovely woman, lovely woman

John Malanca  23:51  
in her and she's she's busy. She's busy. So maybe we'll get her on the show here when one of these days.

Paul Bregman, MD  23:57  
Oh, I'm sure she will.

John Malanca  23:58  
Come on. Yeah. What? So? You want to share a little? what goes on in your daily lifestyle? Are you ever real and not yet? You can tell me no, but you shared a lot about your kids. I don't know if you want to keep them out? Or how's your relationship with them

Paul Bregman, MD  24:14  
to know my remember, as I move forward in this process? Yeah. Once I got the diagnosis of 41, the official diagnosis, I was somewhat relieved. I was working. I was the chief of I was the chief of mammography, breast imaging at Denver General Hospital between 1988 and 1995. So I achieved that's my legacy within radiology. And so the idea was, here I was and in 1991, in the midst of this is when I finally met with a psychiatrist for the first time and he gave me the diet, the diagnosis, so I was somewhat relieved, thinking it would be well managed, and it wouldn't get worse and I'd be able to maintain my career. I got to school a long time to become a radiologist. And so then it got progressively worse. And then I had my first DCT. And so all of a sudden, between 19 when I was 41 and 45, my life pains from working full time to not working and having to resign disabled. And so all of a sudden, it was like, Who Who am I? type? situation.

John Malanca  25:33  
It's, it's amazing how, you know, a friend is going through that right now. And I should when you lose that you lose your whole identity, you lose your whole identity. And you know, losing a job and not even not even going through any any milk mental illness. You know, a friend of mine, which is laid off, and he's having a hard time, but he's, he's a father, a husband, and but he lost his identity at that at that time. I mean, still is right now. You know, we're all going through this stuff right now. You mentioned a point about when you were diagnosed. Did that feel like?

Paul Bregman, MD  26:09  
Yeah, it certainly did. And I told you, it was for I was 41. Yeah, I was having mood changes that were I remember I went through my, from 29 when I residency when it started and there were too many things. Brucker, there was Quicken. And there was a lack of structure and that jarred me, but I made it through 29 to 41. And then I just happened to meet a psychiatrist, the young psychiatrist in the hospital. And I told them what I had been feeling. And then he said, he asked me about my father. He said, Well, it sounds like you have bipolar or clinical depression, why don't you come in to see me? So the idea was that, that it was a relief, because I thought we could treat it. And I'd be on my way. Little did I know that I was entering this morass of just being in the swamp. And instead of getting better, I was ultimately going to get worse. So that was 9194 is when I had my first electroshock therapy, but I would have the aect treatments. Yeah, and still go back to work. You know, that during that period of time, as well. And then the idea was in 1995, the Depression hit so hard, that I just couldn't see myself going back to work. And I was so depressed. That even then I thought we'd get it under control. And I'd go back to my career. It wasn't there was such a feeling of relief of not going into work, because I was so sick. Yeah. Yeah. And I had been so sick 9495 9697 that's when I got so sick, was the idea was that I really thought that I was going to have to change my life and go into a hospital and really change its drastically. And that's when I decided to get married as an anchor, as an anchor to keeping me in this world. Yeah, while I was getting treated. So I've been sick since 95. And it cost me my marriage wasn't necessarily a lovely woman, but not necessarily based on love. And then having the children. I was just afraid to go out into the world because I was so depressed.

John Malanca  28:36  
With you guys are still friends. Right? And last week.

Paul Bregman, MD  28:39  
Yeah. amicable? Yeah. amicable relationship. Yeah, but we're amicable. Well, also, because we have a 16 year old and a 19 year old. Yeah. Yeah, she's 17 years younger. I'm 70. She's 53. I got married to her when I was 47. And she was 30.

John Malanca  28:56  
She's my age. Right? She's my age. Wow. If If you would have discovered cannabis back when you were taking a little time off back then while you're still at the hospital. Do you think he could have stayed on?

Paul Bregman, MD  29:15  
No, I was too sick at that time. And what killed me from leaving whadda leave the hospital situation was the pace that to me that I was reading and doing too many things multitasking within that position. And that's what the illness, bipolar people love structure. Yeah, but once the pace goes, and multitasking is very difficult for them to do and that's what did me it. Yeah. You know, maybe, maybe I could have done it less time and slow down the pace. But I just think being in that environment. What Adding kerosene to the fire.

John Malanca  30:03  
What a visual, what a visual use to keep in contact with any of your colleagues or has everyone just code

Paul Bregman, MD  30:09  
the problem with mental illness and just in general, is that nobody mental illness particular is mental illness when you people know that you have a mental illness, most of them will ultimately disappear from your sphere, because they don't know how to deal with you as a friend. And they don't know just a phone call. And I knew maybe over 100 docs in the hospital because I walked around and I said, Hello. And I was gregarious, like, you know, of me, as well. So maybe 25 or 50. But once I laughed, I never got a call from anyone asking me how it was. And that's still purchased. Even mostly today. Yeah. Yeah, they don't know. They don't see you as just having like a cardiac problem, or a lung problem, or something like that. They don't really know just to say, I'm thinking of you sending you a text, you know, let's go out for lunch. I'm going to drop off dinner your house, what do you need? It's a really, that's it. That became a shock.

John Malanca  31:19  
Yeah. And it's unfortunate that it's kind of life. And I don't want to say take that away from what you went through. Because they're friends that I haven't spoken to since Clint passed. You know, everyone just gets busy and does their own thing. And it's tough, especially when you need Hey, that phone call. How are you doing? Thanks, all

Paul Bregman, MD  31:40  
you need. That's all you need. Your attacks? They don't but they're uncomfortable with the whole the top.

John Malanca  31:47  
I mean, yeah, exactly. So it's like

Paul Bregman, MD  31:49  
they're unhappy, on, you know, they have their lives. But also they they don't understand just that little phone call would make a big difference. But with mental illness, it really frightens people.

John Malanca  32:01  
Paul, I'm probably guilty of it myself. So if I didn't call, you know, you're in there. You know, I think I think we all you know, and so, you know,

Paul Bregman, MD  32:12  
but getting back to your question. Yeah, I didn't expect it from colleagues that I had worked 878 years with, that I had formed real bonds with a with doctors who knew why I left. You know, I mean, all of a sudden, I was there. And the next thing I was gone. So it spread very quickly. And you think that somebody a doctor would call up and say, Man, I heard you sick. I hope you if you need anything, again, that your psychiatrist, but I'm just here for you, you know, know that? And it was like, so, yeah,

John Malanca  32:50  
yeah. Does this happen? A lot of doctors I've worked with a lot a lot of patients and a lot of doctors have that are that go through depression because of high stress, go, go, go, go go. And then they go home and bring, you know, the family wants him to be happy and play with the kids when they're still at work. And so this happens to some friends of mine that are doctors and

Paul Bregman, MD  33:13  
Well, I think that there's a component, definitely of the situation that is there. But mine was definitely triggered with the fact of having the genetic,

John Malanca  33:23  
hereditary. Exactly. And so is there a chance that either of your children can get this?

Paul Bregman, MD  33:29  
Yeah. 30% check if both of us had it. And there'll be 70 to 80%. Yeah. Okay. And then, in, in my case, the fact that I haven't, so it's 30%. And fortunately, that nothing's been shown up because 50% of mental illness can be shown up in kids before the age of 17. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I think about that, and, and hopefully, everything so far has been good.

John Malanca  34:01  
What can you share with some of our listeners that might be thinking, God, this is exactly what's happened happening to me, because you were diagnosed, like you said until 41. But you've had it you knew something was going on? Earlier, like,

Paul Bregman, MD  34:15  
at 2929. Yeah. Before 29 I was a superstar. I never would have thought I had a mood disorder. Because there was so much structure, and everything was in place, and I was able to keep my world like that. And then at 29 when the residency started, all hell broke loose. But I kept it looking together until 41. Yeah, even then, I just happened to run in in this guy.

John Malanca  34:43  
Kept it looking together. I mean, that's exactly what a lot lot of the patients do. You know, even talking about fibromyalgia. On the outside, you look perfectly fine on the inside. They're in pain. As I mentioned, Beth gets up at three, just to get out of bed at six in the morning because it takes that long for her body just to get back. And on the outside, she looks perfectly fine. So were people seeing the same thing with you like, no, this is Paul.

Paul Bregman, MD  35:09  
Yeah, there's just different things. And maybe part of the personality was trucked up to being from New York, and things like that. Now it was in the Midwest. But the idea was, there was always maybe a little edge. And that this Finally, the conversation that I had, it wasn't because I went to the psychiatrist appointment. It was when I was on call, and we were having this talk at one o'clock in the morning, and he happened just to be there. And I explained to him what my situation was. And then he said, Why don't you come into my office? And that's the way it started. It's not like if I didn't run into him, I don't know when I and if I would have ever I never spoke about it to my, to my regular doctor. Yeah, ever mentioned it. It never occurred to me, that I was I have these, you know, these mood, but I never thought about talking to a psychiatrist. And then when I did, it just opened up a whole world to figure out that this is going this is at the center will be I need help.

John Malanca  36:13  
So for any of our listeners, what can you recommend some of your tips because you've been through this sometimes, okay, so

Paul Bregman, MD  36:19  
the tips are, look at your family history, and see what you know, aunts, uncles, things like that, what mental illness, anxiety, depression, bipolar, schizophrenia, anything that runs in the family, okay, with really any health problem, but especially mental illness. If you begin to feel anxious, depressed, things symptoms, you could look them up and Google them just to see how many of those symptoms you may or may not fit. And when you go to your doctor, discuss that with your regular doctor, so they can do appropriate tests to rule out anything physical, okay. And then if those symptoms of depression or anxiety or not sleeping or something that goes on, he may want to get a consult, or you may ask for a consult with the psychiatrist, just like you would have a psychiatrist, a therapist or expert look at any other part of your body. And he or she would make a diagnosis, perhaps now at that point, it's a matter of how bad you're feeling what you want to try. And so at least you have that covered, if you have the right access, like your group, or calling me because that's what I do now is recommend cannabis cannabis information. Cannabis resource dot info, is you need a cannabis expert, who has dealt with mental illness, to at least be part of the team to at least give you information. Because the psychiatrist is going to give you traditional medicine, that may help you right away, because a lot of people are well managed on that medicine. But at least you have the information about a cannabis console. You shouldn't self medicate yourself, you know, if you're suffering with depression, anxiety, things like that. And then if you do have a diagnosable mental illness, you have options of treatment. What are the side effects? What are you going to do regarding exercise? What are you going to do about diet? How are you going to incorporate that into your job? How are you as a parent, okay, and these things and money, who's controlling the money, the first thing is, who's controlling the money if you get diagnosed with an illness, because you're going to go for therapy, and whatever you do in therapy is sometimes going to be difficult to take out of the session. And if you don't have somebody controlling your money, and you get diagnosed early, in 2030 years, you could wind up being homeless, if you don't have the right budget and the right control. And so I have a conservator who takes care of my money. I lost $200,000 along the way, because I didn't know how to budget even if I didn't have bipolar. My father didn't taught me to teach me the value of he thought money was love that was that generation. But the unfortunate thing is because of my bipolar. I needed somebody to help. I need all the money that I was collecting on disability. Okay. And remember I was I was collecting 10 I had a disability insurance to cover radiology that I signed up for 35. it kicked in a 45. When I wasn't going to go back to work with radiology though I was getting $10,000 a month. Okay, but I had no clue about the value of $1 and credit cards, and just how to manage and things like that, that money should have gone immediately to the conservator or somebody else. And I should have been put on a budget to say, you have $300 to spend each week. And the rest we're going to do so money is key, the right therapy is key. the right diagnosis is key, making sure that your physical well being is good. And then you have to figure out diet, exercise, and then how you going to, and the major thing that you want to after money is you want to make sure or before is how to be a good parent, if you have good children, because it is you may make wrong decisions about who your life partner may be. And if you do have a life partner, how that marriage is going to change, given her expectations, and your limitations. The end of my marriage came across not only it was a number of different reasons, we were very different people. But part of it was being her expectations. And my limitations didn't match up. Because I looked so good. I mean, look at me now, you wouldn't ever imagine that I have bipolar, and therefore you're 70. But and I'm 70. But the idea is, I have bipolar, I've had it for all these years. I have it. I live with suicidal ideation. But fortunately, using the cannabis this morning, has given me an upward swing to be able to be here and be able to be productive and move like this and not be out of control or any which way. dosing is very important. I'm not taking the whole joint and smoking the whole joint. We're just doing one or two tiny pumps to put me in a state where I am in good shape. Yeah.

John Malanca  42:01  
And I'm glad you said that because less, in many cases is more. You know,

Paul Bregman, MD  42:06  
there's no question about it. Less is more. And as you said, for me, I just need a touch of the THC. I don't do any dabbing. I don't do edibles, because I don't metabolize edibles, like normal people. So that's why I'm there with inhaling and a glass pipe, or better a vaporizer volcano or packs or something like that.

John Malanca  42:28  
Yeah. With with bipolar. What I've seen, as well as study is that a lot of patients that are going through but bipolar have different vices, addictions, one could be spending a bunch of money, like you said, you know, you have $10,000 check coming in here and you're spending you could you should have just spent 300. But you're spending a whole 10,000. So spending spending spending, others have alcoholic addictions, sex addictions? was anything like that with you as it was just a money thing? No,

Paul Bregman, MD  43:05  
I didn't know. addictions? No, I never had really any of those addictions, but went a long way. No. So the answer was no, I was just using the cannabis. And and also, money was away. I didn't understand the value of dollar. So I used it in maybe remotely or loosely in that way. Because I wasn't going to give up that control. Yeah. That was the only thing that I had to control up. So if you took that away, I would have I would have just been out of not knowing that I had that when it should have been the right thing. Yeah. But no, but you're absolutely right. Other people do, what I did, what I missed to my life, and what what really has affected me now is the fact that I didn't have great models with my mother and father. and combine that with the bipolar is that I never really thought about settling down and having a normal life like you had with Korean or like other people get married in their 20s or the 30s or something like that and begin developing this normal life. For me. It was hard being a parent under normal circumstances. When you have bipolar and are depressed and irritable it's almost impossible unless you have a nanny and you can separate yourself out that's why the cannabis at least give me some time to be able to smile and laugh.

John Malanca  44:48  
Did they know that this did they know dad was using cannabis and they like they could do they prefer data if they knew did they prefer dad do they know and dad use cannabis instead? Dad's back, or do you keep it? So 19

Paul Bregman, MD  45:01  
and 16. So at that point, it was 2005. So they were four and seven. So they had no idea what so whatsoever. Now, it still hasn't come up in discussion to say, Do you use cannabis? Or they say I'm using? They know that what I do? Yeah. Okay. And they probably googled me. But it's not like, we've had the discussion where your father uses medical cannabis to help. They know I have bipolar. Yeah. And they know and I have had a male mental illness for many years, because we talked about it, but we haven't when they're in their 20s. That's when I think we'll talk about that. And they haven't asked, but I think thing. I think they know.

John Malanca  45:45  
They may know, these are kids, internet that they

Paul Bregman, MD  45:48  
need, but they have access. I wouldn't be surprised if they googled their father.

John Malanca  45:52  
That's I mean, I mean, kids nowadays, you know, I have a goddaughter. And she's six or seven, she knows everything out there. She's like, pulls that she knew this at four how to get on the internet or an iPad and type in stuff and gunfights those and

Paul Bregman, MD  46:06  
they haven't asked, and they haven't asked me about do you use that direct question? Yeah, they just are uncomfortable. And

John Malanca  46:14  
they're, they're in Colorado as well, right?

Paul Bregman, MD  46:16  
Yes, yes, my girls in high school as a junior and my boy is softboard, University of Colorado, Boulder. I have good relationships with them now. But it took me a very, that's the biggest regret that I have is the fact that I wish they were five and eight. So I understand things better. So I could go back and hug them in dead and read to them and be more patient with them. It took me a long time to to understand that. And this is relatively new, last year, last two years. So every day I text them and stuff like that. But it's taken me that time, long the time to be also understanding of the illness better.

John Malanca  47:02  
Well, it's never too late to be a better father.

Paul Bregman, MD  47:06  
No loving Yeah, better late than never at least they'll remember when they go over. I text them every day. Just to say I love you have a good day. So at least they'll have that when I'm gone. But that was part of the illness as well. Because I was so so angry. I was so angry that I was gotten this illness and I didn't know what to do. That's where Voc Rehab would have come into help. The conservator would have you ever go to any rehabs? Yeah, but I just was so upset and they were the jobs were so menial. And also it just messed with my mind. I couldn't get my head around it. But I think there would have been something for me. I think there would have been something for me. Definitely. I did do. JOHN. I did work. From 1995 to 2005. I was very active being a mental health advocate. So I made inroads in that community. And I helped get insurance for mental illness in the state of Colorado. I was one of the doctors did that. So I helped with that. In 2007. I started doing mental health evaluation, mental cannabis evaluations. One of the and I was one of two doctors that testified in the Colorado legislature with Alan shackleford for common sense.

John Malanca  48:34  
Nowadays. You don't hear about him anymore.

Paul Bregman, MD  48:36  
He's around these doing stuff in Israel. He's doing stuff here.

John Malanca  48:40  
You heard about him everywhere back in 2011.

Paul Bregman, MD  48:43  
Very nice article written about him in Project CBD by Mary Biles. Okay. Anyway, so I was involved. This was 2007. Yeah. And I was using cannabis. And I was doing that I did 4000 3000 evaluations. In the early days when people were getting cards. You know, I'm paying whatever and I was doing that. And very functional. But then what happened was the Colorado Medical Board. I think I had to go to the Colorado medical board to keep my license active. After I stopped practicing radiology, I was used. So I would see them three or four times a year. Just go in how are you doing? Everything's fine. I'd seem it might be seeing my psychiatrist. One time I felt good. And I said how you doing 2010 as I'm doing great. He said, what's happened, you would not do that great for many years. I said I'm using medical cannabis. That became a three year battle where I was the precedent setting case that you cannot have an active medical cannabis card and also have an active medical license in the United States. So by licensed in 2013 had to go in inactive. And I was functioning, no malpractice, everything going fine. Wouldn't smoke before I went to work, I wasn't going to work Hi, I was just doing my thing. I try to convince them that I could be an educator as well. But they're conservative. You know, they're conservative. And, and so my license was he so I even among all of this, I lost my license to practice in 2013.

John Malanca  50:29  
Again, taking away the identity.

Paul Bregman, MD  50:32  
Oh, I was. That was, that was brutal.

John Malanca  50:36  
I remember I remember those calls. I remember those calls. And they were served out

Paul Bregman, MD  50:41  
brutal. And so since that time, I've reinvented myself with this resource that info. So people call me for information like the goal united patients group. Yeah. But they also call me on an individual basis. And I help them find the right doctor for their expertise,

John Malanca  50:58  
and the Clio patients. And you and i, you and i have worked together on cases like that as well. And so, you know, I want you to have spotlight and give yourself a plug because, you know, you've walked a day in their shoes, you know, what's going on, you've been on the medical side as a medical professional, as as, as a as well as a patient. And so many of our listeners, as I mentioned earlier, like, who may be thinking they're alone, they're not alone. And so can you share how people can get ahold you and some of the guys,

Paul Bregman, MD  51:31  
thank you. Thank you. So it's cannabis resource. dot info, is my website, cannabis resource dot info. My name is Paul Bregman, br e g ma n Google at all Bragman br eg mn. But cannabis resource that info is the best way to get in touch with me or called john. I mean, especially if you want to speak about mental illness or just to get my insight because it's not only not only you have to remember with me, it's not only about the cannabis, okay, the cannabis helped me. But cannabis isn't common. I can't emphasize enough. There's a whole team approach about how to do this. I have a way that I think can help manage and make mental illness a better be better manage, not just with cannabis, but in combination with Western medicine perhaps. And the team approach about money and job and support and suicide prevention as well. You have to remember, suicide is a very hundred almost 100 people a day commit suicide. Forget about 75 attempts by veterans and 20 accomplishments. So suicide is the ultimate thing that we're trying to prevent here as well, as well as the suffering that people go through. And if people get the right cannabis, a cannabis console with the right expert, you can bring it in and round things out and incorporate the best of both worlds like I do. Remember Depakote a lot of people take Depakote and don't want to take Depakote because to gain 30 4050 pounds become diabetic. That didn't happen to me was a good mood stabilizer. But the cannabis consultant working with the psychiatrists can perhaps round things out. Remember, your psychiatrist is not going to know anything about cannabis. And the cannabis stock will probably have faced people who have come to them with taking all of the psychiatric, meds, medicines. So that's why they should be a member of the team. But for my own what I was left with after they took away my active license. No, now I'm inactive, was at least being able to give out information and be able to give lecture and talk about cbga. And and while I'm not prescribing or treating anybody. I'm a wealth of this information. And I've lived it, especially mental elements because people don't want to talk about mental mental illness like I'm talking.

John Malanca  54:24  
That's exactly why I wanted you on the show to share your your knowledge, your experience, your expertise. You know, I don't say I become an expert in, in pancreatic cancer, but you know what, I've learned a lot. And so I've reached out. I mean, a lot of people come to me and said, What have you learned? I mean, when you're in it, you know, it's unfortunately sometimes it takes experience to become an expert. Good and bad. And so thank you for sharing. I want to talk about before we go you were talking about icon like about the pillars of life and I'm so happy you brought that up about exercise diet. love being a good person? Are you incorporating those things? Are you able to incorporate those in your in your life?

Paul Bregman, MD  55:06  
Very difficult? Because I don't, I, I'm just happy to be able to get up. Yeah, at a regular time, walk the dog, do the basic things like that. I have a meal plan that works for me that sometimes a cook, sometimes I don't. The exercise portion has been, you know, I'm trying to get back into it. It's just been, it's been difficult when you suffer from depression. And you doing this by yourself, remember, I don't have a partner. So I'm alone with this, a motivational aspect of things. I'm successful if I can get to the shower and take a shower and get dressed, or things as well. But you cannot discount that if you're in a regular exercise program. Not even that much regular, and you're eating a good diet, and you're getting enough sleep. And you are making sure that you have regular doctor visits and dental visits and take care, those type of things, you will lead. Those are the foundations for leading a better and more successful life. In addition to the other things that we talked about bipolar, if it's not fair, if you're not eating a good diet, you're not getting some good exercise, and you're not getting enough sleep, you are not going to be as successful in managing your mental illness. That's why that's easy. That's a key.

John Malanca  56:43  
And that's why it's so important to have that on the team. You know, someone's going on there to working together. Can you share again how people get a hold of you?

Paul Bregman, MD  56:53  
Yes, again, my name is Paul Bregman, br eg ma n, MD, Denver, Colorado. My website is cannabis resource dot info, cannabis resource, or one word, dot info 3035504115335504115 Denver, Colorado. And you can get in touch with me that way through john as well. JOHN will be posting this and it'll be under all Bregman mental illness. And I think I can make a difference. I know I can make a difference in the management of mental illness. And I know how cannabis and CBD affected me. I don't think that if I would have had the CBD in the cannabis that I necessarily would have had to go through electroshock therapy, which people should not be afraid of.

John Malanca  57:53  
Can you talk about electroshock I meant to ask you that question earlier. And then

Paul Bregman, MD  57:57  
electroshock therapy is a very widely used benign procedure that people are using going to into the hospital all the time. It's a procedure, outpatient. It's an outpatient procedure whereby they anesthetize you, as in a room, they come in, they put you out for about 20 minutes, they hook up electrodes on one side of your brain over your head over here, or both sides. They put a current through your brain while you're out. That's like the 60 watt electric bulb. It causes a convulsion. The convulsion changes, the neuro chemistry, dopamine, serotonin, things that the cannabis does, but this does it in a different way. And you usually have 10 or 15 treatments over a period of three weeks, and your depression or mania, it's got 80 to 90% success rate in treating these depression that doesn't respond to medicines, or that get worse, or basically, it's not the first thing that they're going to do. It's going to be at the end of the road for for that. And that's why it I had it done for me. But it's benign does it has side effects and the fact Where can you can have memory loss that may or may not come back. That's the biggest downsides. But I looked at if I had over 100 Pete treatments with electroshock therapy. I had it every year, in when the days got short, November, December, January, February, I had 15 treatments over between 2019 94 for eight years. So eight times 15. So the idea was and I had them in 15 treatment intervals three times a week for two weeks, twice a week, and it would live by mood and last for about six months or so. So people Have this horrible One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest type of image of VCT. And it's totally different than that, except for the possible memory loss, but I was much happier. I didn't. I didn't have memory loss. The fact I think my memory got better. Okay, but which is rare, I had no memory loss. But at least I got my mood back. I got my mood back. And that was, all of a sudden, I went from an eight or nine or a 10. And a lot of suicidal thoughts, to at least my depression was lifted. And I was a one, two or three for six months.

John Malanca  1:00:41  
Yeah, few months. What about light therapy? I know a lot of bipedally light

Paul Bregman, MD  1:00:45  
therapy is a given for especially those with seasonal affective disorder. I use light therapy starting now. short interval 1015 minutes in the morning, maybe five minutes. So like therapy is key. I think aect at the end road, they have other things if you're suicidal, okay, and you're depressed and can afford it. But ketamine, ketamine, ke t a MI any of ketamine clinics around the country. And I've had ketamine injections, they infuse you actually they do a dark

John Malanca  1:01:24  
jest and they also do I think they do do

Paul Bregman, MD  1:01:29  
eyedrops nasal nasal spray as well, but they can't control the dosing as well as having an IV, I add an IV and I was there for an hour. And if you're suicidal, suicidal thoughts. It's like they are you rate Wow, rates. And if you have depression, it can be lifted 50% 60 cents. It's just that it shows shows. It's very short acting. It only made the feelings may only last 24 to 48 hours.

Unknown Speaker  1:02:02  

Paul Bregman, MD  1:02:03  
and that's the key thing. Each injection may be $300. Insurance may pay 150. Yeah, it's a great drug. They just haven't found out yet how to extend it.

John Malanca  1:02:14  
How did it become? And I appreciate your time. I know we're going going going oh,

Paul Bregman, MD  1:02:19  
that's okay. How did they become because

John Malanca  1:02:22  
ketamine was used for a tranquilizer for horses? At first and they say I think they still do. And then how did they find out? Hey, this can help patients with depression, suicide thoughts, etc.

Paul Bregman, MD  1:02:34  
I think the first step into the human world was that they used it for pain, pain, the ER for pain in human conditions, they found that relieved, relaxed, as well as used for pain control. Okay, how that the next relief may have been just by chance of talking to somebody who is in pain, but also may be psychotic, or suffering from a mental illness. And the patient said to them, then that was great. I don't feel as bad as I felt. And then they made the leap to where they are now. Is there

John Malanca  1:03:14  
so before that, was it a horse tranquilizer? And then I made to humans, or did it go human horses back to human?

Paul Bregman, MD  1:03:19  
No, I think it started horses into the ER, I think for pain. And then this last jump has been for for mental illness. And I don't know exactly how the thought process was was but I wouldn't be surprised if a patient a few patients remarked how much better they felt mentally. And the next big leap is going to be the leap where doctors are going to be trained in the use of silicided

John Malanca  1:03:46  
which is a topic we just had Brad

Paul Bregman, MD  1:03:50  
the other day, right and silicides is I mean psilocybin is going to be widely used in hospice settings, okay, because the people who are dying, you have so many people who are afraid of dying, if you give them a silicides and let them see the other side perhaps or however that trip is in a control dose. They come back from to their bodies and they say, I'm not afraid I saw the other side and I'm okay with it. Okay. And that's what's happening there with the myself. I was suicidal thinking and depressed. And when I had to disassociate, it's like you're sitting in the chair with the ketamine you slowly float up to the ceiling, and you're looking at yourself in the chair as well. And then as they our ends, you come back together into the chair, and your brain is just completely flushed of the negativity that you went in there with.

John Malanca  1:04:55  
It's amazing, you know, you're talking about a team but it's also an arsenal and an You know, I'm the first to always say cannabis is not a one size fits all fix it. You know, and I think sometimes it takes an arsenal of different different tools or weapons, however you want to see to get bring your, your body back. And nowadays, I think ketamine is even approved by the FDA. Is that correct? And oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, no. So it you know, maybe after this election, I think in Colorado for medical use, or they're, they're not what's what's the story with Phil Simon and call it Colorado and I think the same thing, well,

Paul Bregman, MD  1:05:36  
they just passed. They're doing trials, their trials in places, and they just passed that it's legal to possess it, and things like that they that happened in Oregon, that I just think recently, as well. So that's becoming, but in the meantime, they're doing putting tons of money into research.

John Malanca  1:05:58  
Good, good. Hopefully, they put some research into into the cannabis research as well, as well as all these other Well, the

Paul Bregman, MD  1:06:04  
ironic thing is that putting more money into, into the research with the silicides and the psychedelics, than they are still into cannabis is there, but it's still not as much as it needs to be? Well, because look at the opioid situation. I mean, you have opioid town halls, and nobody brings up cannabis by any of the experts. Well, and the same thing with mental illness. The same thing with mental illness like myself, if I didn't have cannabis, the doctors, that's what my psychiatrists told the board. The guy, we don't have anything more to give this guy. That's what patients call me, they call you. The doctors told me they have no more to give me for my fibromyalgia, or my depression or anything. What am I supposed to do? What happens if I didn't have the cannabis Tell me like this? I probably wouldn't be yet. JOHN, I probably would have been either in a hospital, or probably hadn't had enough and just killed myself. This at least gives me periods of time when I have some hope. And I feel better, it could be productive. Like I am also with you if I wasn't using cannabis. Some days. I I've had to cancel a couple of podcasts because I was so depressed. Oh, you can't imagine how paralyzing that is. Yeah.

John Malanca  1:07:31  
But even as you said, you know, there's days sometimes it takes that much to get up to go take a shower to get dressed, just to go

Paul Bregman, MD  1:07:38  
shopping, or just to do it. And I've forced myself and do it and whatever. It's very, very, if you can't imagine how difficult Yeah, you know, this is,

John Malanca  1:07:51  
you know, you spoke about hope I talked about hope all the time. And I never want to give anybody false hope. But I think hope is very important. You sharing and gave you hoping to get through the next day. And I think and I know, your your conversation with me today will give one person and that's why I look at it. If it helps one person that I know it was successful. I know that successful conversation, but a successful conversation for someone else. If we can help one person, then I know that what we've done here is the reason why we did it to give

Paul Bregman, MD  1:08:25  
and also it's cathartic for me, you have to understand too, it's it's, this is good therapy for me. And it helps me with knowing what you just said. But it also is the idea is that because I speak the truth, you know, I mean, I know this is about the team approach and the way cannabis can be. But it's got to be in the person with the right hands. And if they start to self experiment, and they start to do dabbing and they start to do these high doses of THC and other stuff like that. They really could get themselves and throw them in into a psychotic episode where they could really do more harm than good.

John Malanca  1:09:02  
Yeah. Well, Paul, I love you man. And really good.

Paul Bregman, MD  1:09:07  
You all the best. Thank you very much for your notice. But it was great.

John Malanca  1:09:13  
And that was great. We've been talking about this and then I heard our listeners I call Paul I said he had a cancellation date available when I said a couple hours let's do it. So um yeah, it's good to see you smile and

Paul Bregman, MD  1:09:26  
thank you You made me smile john, you made less smile

John Malanca  1:09:29  
and really good to see you and can't wait to wait to see a face to face again.

Paul Bregman, MD  1:09:34  
Exactly. But in the meantime stay in touch definitely if you need anything I'm here for you. As always like you're there for me so all the best okay

John Malanca  1:09:42  
All the best to you and to our listeners I thank you This has been a really I've really enjoyed this conversation. But if you're going through something like this, give Paul a call. You know he's experiencing he seen both sides and

Paul Bregman, MD  1:09:54  
kind of this resource that info yeah and john 303-550-4115 Bregman Paul Krugman, MD, Denver, Colorado,

John Malanca  1:10:04  
or Google him because his kids are googling him yet, but

Paul Bregman, MD  1:10:08  
yeah, I have a controversial background you'll read about me I'm not I don't malpractice, no bad things that just, you know, try to do the right thing, but I'm just a pioneer.

John Malanca  1:10:20  
Well, you're a pioneer. And thank you for you are actually one of the pioneers. And so thank you, and I'm honored to know you and work with you as well. And we'll see you soon everybody, John Malanca, with United patients group being formed and be well and I hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as I did. So Blessings to you all. We'll see you soon. Bye bye. Yeah.